Grace, explained by Swami Lakshmanjoo, part 2

Excerpt from the 10th chapter of Kashmir Shaivism: The Secret Supreme, audio study set, revealed by Swami Lakshmanjoo. [This is a continuation from part 1.]

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Now there are other graces also and by those graces of Lord Shiva worthy disciples are created.

Fourth grace is called madhyativra. By this kind of grace, which is called medium supreme grace not supreme medium; medium supreme, medium is predominant, supremity is not predominant.
JOHN: Not predominant any more.
SWAMIJI: Medium supreme grace, by medium supreme grace he reaches at the feet of master, but the master is absolutely perfect master. But as the foundation in the mind of this kind of disciple is not quite complete, quite completely perfect, so mere touch or look or grace does not effect in this kind of disciple.
JOHN: Does not effect enlightenment.
SWAMIJI: So he is initiated by master in a proper way. He gives him mantra and way for treading, and by this kind of initiation he is enlightened. But although enlightened he is not completely satisfied with this enlightenment during the period of his existence of physical body, but as soon as he leaves this physical body in the end he gets satisfactory result of this initiation and becomes one with Shiva at the time of his death.
JOHN: He becomes satisfied.
SWAMIJI: Satisfied completely.
JOHN: And then satisfaction is then becoming one with Shiva.
SWAMIJI: Yes, but only after leaving this physical body, not till then.
JOHN: So he has some oneness with Shiva before.
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: Some enlightenment but not total enlightenment. Not like the third, the second or first.
SWAMIJI: No.

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Number five is madhyamadhya shaktipata. The meaning of madhyamadhya shaktipata is medium middle shaktipata. When this is functioned by Lord Shiva, intense desire for achieving the existence of Lord Shiva rises in his mind, takes place in his mind. He wants to realize the existence of Lord Shiva, but at the same time he does not want to ignore the enjoyments of the world, worldly pleasures. He wants to enjoy worldly pleasures side by side. But intensity of desire is only for achieving Lord Shiva’s state. And this desire for worldly enjoyments also takes place in his mind. So although he is initiated by a master and he realizes his real nature of Lord Shiva, or his real Self, while remaining in this physical body he enjoys the bliss of that state and at the same time enjoys the pleasures of, worldly pleasures also. But as these worldly pleasures are not real pleasure in this mortal field of universe, so for his complete satisfaction at the time of leaving his physical body he enters in the kingdom of paradise, svargaloka, and enjoys all worldly pleasures there to his entire satisfaction. Then afterwards, he does not come down in the mortal world. He does not come down in the mortal world; he is again initiated by his master, there, by his master because his master is all-pervading. So he reaches there also in that paradise and initiates him because he is then satisfied, completely satisfied with the pleasures of the universe.
JOHN: That is finished, that desire.
SWAMIJI: That is finished. And he initiates him afresh again and he is . . .
JOHN: Taken.
SWAMIJI: No, he is . . .
JOHN: He becomes complete.
SWAMIJI: . . . complete and he realizes the reality of his supreme nature. And from that very place he enters in the kingdom of Lord Shiva and merges in Him completely.
JOHN: So then we can say that even before, when he lived on earth and he had realized his Self as Lord Shiva, because this desire for pleasures of the world was there, that kept him from . . .
SWAMIJI: Yes, it kept him away from.
JOHN: . . . away from full enlightenment.

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SWAMIJI: Now another shaktipata, which one?
JOHN: Number six.
SWAMIJI: Number six.
JOHN: It is called what?
SWAMIJI: Madhyamanda, Madhya manda shaktipata means medium inferior. This medium inferior shaktipata, though is just like the first one . . . No, this one.
JOHN: Like this fifth one.
SWAMIJI: . . . fifth one, but there is some difference. Predominance is for worldly pleasures there in his mind; and desire, ultimate desire for attaining the state of Lord Shiva is also there. This kind of grace carries him from this physical body to paradise first and there he enjoys the pleasures of worldly pleasures. But he does not get fitness to start practice there, for attaining the realization of Self in paradise. So he has to come down in this mortal field and take birth again, one birth. And there, from the very birth, he sentences his mind towards the fulfillment of his Self-realization. Although his life is very short there, he becomes quite complete in that life and enters in transcendental state of Shiva in the end.
JOHN: So he does not achieve Self-realization at all in the first life?
SWAMIJI: In the first he achieves Self-realization not completely.
JOHN: Not completely, some Self-knowledge but not total self-knowledge.
SWAMIJI: Because there is agitation of that going for pleasures.
JOHN: So he would still have anavamala plus karmamala?
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: He would have the malas?
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: All malas or just . . . all three malas.
SWAMIJI: All three malas.
JOHN: Just not as strongly then.
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: [It] takes one more birth to rid themselves of that completely.
So in this next birth, is he still functioning in the same grace or is he is under . . .
SWAMIJI: No, the same grace is functioning.
JOHN: . . . same grace is functioning all the way thru, all the way thru. And as soon as he realizes Shiva then he drops his body in the second birth.
SWAMIJI: And that body is said to be very short. That life is said to be very short. Maybe thirty years, twenty years, fifteen years, not long, because his grace, that grace of Lord Shiva wants to carry him in a sooner way.
JOHN: Quickly.
SWAMIJI: Quickly.
DEVOTEE: Shankaracarya.
SWAMIJI: Shankaracarya died also only thirty two years [old].

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Now the next one is called tivramanda shaktipata . . .
mandativra shaktipata. In mandativra shaktipata that is inferior supreme, inferior supreme. In inferior shaktipata, supreme kind of shaktipata, and another is . . . first there is mandativra shaktipata.
JOHN: That is number seven.
SWAMIJI: Yes. Eighth is manda madhyashaktipata. Ninth is manda mandashaktipata.
JOHN: Number seven means inferior supreme?
SWAMIJI: Inferior supreme; inferior medium, eighth . . .
JOHN: Inferior medium. And then the last one is?
SWAMIJI: . . . and most inferior.
JOHN: Inferior inferior.
SWAMIJI: Yes. In other words most inferior.
And these three kinds of shaktipatas, graces take place in the field of aspirants living in the kingdom of loka dharmah. But the fourth, fifth and sixth grace was functioning in the aspirant living in the field of Shiva dharma. The one who is living in the field of Shiva dharma has got tendency for achieving the state of self realization at least half hourly, once half hourly in the day and once of twice during night. The other period he wants to utilize in worldly pleasures.
JOHN: So he is always having that desire comes again and again and again.
SWAMIJI: And for these three sadhakas who are residing in the field of loka dharmah, they get desire for achieving the state of Lord Shiva or Self-realization only when they are pressurized by pains and pleasures of the world; when they get pressure. Do you understand?
JOHN: Yes. When some hard things hit them.
SWAMIJI: And they want to leave everything, but they don’t leave. They don’t leave but they want to leave. They want to achieve that supreme realization but they cannot. And this kind of grace is meant for loka dharmi sadhaka, sadhakas residing in the field, in the kingdom of loka dharma, i.e. more tendency for worldly pleasures, less tendency for realizing their Self. Although these sadhakas are mostly given to worldly pleasures all the time, but as the grace of Lord Shiva shines in them, so in the end these kind of sadhakas become one with supreme nature, say in three lives, four lives, six lives, seven lives but the end is best, because this is the greatness of grace of Lord Shiva because Lord Shiva’s grace is on them. Though in this way, in this inferior way, but Lord Shiva’s grace is in them. So that grace will carry them to the real end.
JOHN: . . . to the real end, and it can take any time. It could be one life, ten lives.
SWAMIJI: . . . twenty lives.
JOHN: Whatever?
SWAMIJI: Yes.

JOHN: Does Shaivism have a conception that everyone sooner or later is going to realize that?
SWAMIJI: Absolute.
JOHN: Everyone sooner or later.
SWAMIJI: Everyone.
JOHN: So then the grace of Lord Shiva is working in everyone, in major or lesser intensity.
SWAMIJI: In everyone, yes, in the end, in their own way.
JOHN: In their own way.
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: So all, if everyone in the world became Lord Shiva where comes the new people of the world? If everyone realizes their nature as Lord Shiva, then there is no more being beginning again.
SWAMIJI: But you see there is not limitation of the number.
JOHN: Of Shiva’s.
SWAMIJI: The limitation of number, if there would have been limitation of number, particular numbers, there is no particular numbers, because this is infinite number, infinite number will never end.
JOHN: Never end. So as many go out that many come in. There is always to more to replace those.
SWAMIJI: No, this it is infinite. The individual souls are infinite.
JOHN: But they are not all born now. They are not all in the world now.
SWAMIJI: They are all in the world.
JOHN: In different . . .
SWAMIJI: . . . in different, yes, in [different] sex, in subtle bodies, in super body, in physical body.
JOHN: Just in ever kind of way.
SWAMIJI: Yes, in every kind of way.
JOHN: In all one hundred eighteen worlds of bhuvanadhan?
SWAMIJI: Yes. So there is no end. There will be never end.
JOHN: Never end. How about the mahapralaya?
SWAMIJI: Then. Take a seed. Take a seed of shali [rice] seed or any wheat seed. Just see the energy, creative energy, how much creative energy is found in that one seed. It is not to create only one tree, one tree of each, thousand, ‘lakhs’ [100,000]. There is energy, infinite energy . . .
JOHN: In that one seed.
SWAMIJI: . . . in one seed.
JOHN: Cause it gives it’s whole energy . . .
SWAMIJI: One seed can produce infinite trees; trees which have no number. So such is the course of all these individuals in this world. So these individuals will never end.
JOHN: They never end.
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: So at the beginning of creation, after mahapralaya, when the new creation comes out all souls are there?
SWAMIJI: All souls are there; they are enfolded.
JOHN: Enfolded and then they are unfolded.
SWAMIJI: Unfolded again at the time of creation. At the time of creating the universe they are unfolded. At the time of destruction they are enfolded.
JOHN: But there is a difference between pralaya and mahapralaya.
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: Little destruction and the great destruction.
SWAMIJI: There is great destruction but in that great destruction also they are there, they remain there.
JOHN: They remain in some sense. Their karma is still in there?
SWAMIJI: Only realized souls do not remain there.
JOHN: Because I was under the impression that in Kashmir Shaivism they had the notion that in mahapralaya all souls . . .
SWAMIJI: . . . will be liberated.
JOHN: . . . will be liberated.
SWAMIJI: No, no, no, that is not the way. That is not the theory of Kashmir Shaivism.
JOHN: No?
SWAMIJI: No.
JOHN: So there is never a time, once creation is . . .
SWAMIJI: There is only time when there is grace of Lord Shiva. That is the real time.
JOHN: So creation is beginning-less?
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: Souls have always been, it’s beginning-less?
SWAMIJI: Yes.
JOHN: But it’s not endless?
SWAMIJI: No, it’s not endless.
JOHN: Not endless, could end with the grace of Lord Shiva now, at this moment. I wonder why, I must bring that passage where it mentions about mahapralaya.
SWAMIJI: Yes. Yes, you show me that.
JOHN: I would like to because that is confusing to me.
SWAMIJI: That is all.